Where is Planet X? Where is Nemesis?

Where is Planet X? Where is Nemesis?

Artists impression of the hypothetical star, Nemesis (Anynobody on Wikipedia)

Before Pluto was discovered, the world’s astronomers were captivated by the possibility of finding another massive planet beyond the orbit of Neptune. In 1930, Pluto was discovered lurking in what was considered to be the edge of the Solar System. However, it quickly became apparent that Pluto was tiny; it wasn’t the Planet X we were looking for. For the last 80 years, astronomers have been looking for a large planet that might go to some way of explaining interplanetary features such as the “Kuiper Cliff”, but Planet X has not been found. Unfortunately, the word “Planet X” has now become synonymous with conspiracy theories and doomsday, almost as notorious as the word “Nemesis”.

Nemesis is another unanswered question hanging over Solar System evolution: does the Sun have a binary twin? Is there a second, dim, hidden “sun” stalking it’s brighter counterpart from over a light year away? Some scientists have come forward to suggest that the existence of a hypothetical second sun — embodied as a brown dwarf or red dwarf — could explain some cyclical effects here on Earth (i.e. mass extinctions occurring with a strange regularity). Naturally, the discussion about Nemesis (like the discussion about the possibility of a massive Planet X) is purely academic, and only based on indirect observations and anecdotal evidence. Just because they might exist, doesn’t mean they do.

In a publication recently published to the arXiv database, one Italian researcher has dusted off this topic and asked a very basic question: Can we constrain the possible locations of Nemesis and/or Planet X if they did exist? His results are fascinating…

It’s nice to find a scientific publication about the possible existence of an unaccounted-for planet in the Solar System. The majority of articles I’ve written in the past 12 months have been examining the pseudo-science, fear, lies and nonsense surrounding the year 2012, of which “Planet X” seems to have a huge role to play. For some strange reason, certain unscrupulous authors have pinned every conceivable global doomsday event on a mythical planet that will be arriving at the inner Solar System on December 21st, 2012. Of course, this is total bunkum and the fear surrounding the name “Planet X” is completely unfounded. In fact, Planet X was originally the search for a massive planet beyond the orbit of Neptune, in the pre-Pluto era (some might say that we are now living in a “post-Pluto era” after the dwarf planet’s demotion… just a thought). Planet X is in fact the exciting astronomical journey the world took in the early 20th Century, culminating in the discovery of Pluto.

Searching for Planet X

Artist impression of the cold surface of Pluto (NASA)

Artist impression of the cold surface of Pluto (NASA)

Since Percival Lowell’s suggestion that there might be another planet out there perturbing the orbit of Neptune, the hunt for another planet was intense. The discovery of Pluto by Clyde Tombaugh in 1930 appeared to validate Lowell’s theory. However, by the 1970′s, it was found that Pluto was too small to account for any perturbations in any planet’s orbit, let alone the gas giant Neptune. However, as time went on and techniques became more advanced, the possible perturbations in Neptune’s orbit were put down to observational error. There was no longer any need for a Planet X, a hypothetical planetary body was no longer required to account for orbital perturbations. However, observations of the Kuiper Belt have reinvigorated the hunt for a Planet X (the “X” literally means “unknown”).

The Kuiper Belt is a region of space (in Pluto’s neighbourhood) where lots of icy, rocky bodies have been observed. As we have become rather good at observing small objects on our own doorstep (we’ve actually become rather good at observing objects in other star systems too), we have been able to plot the distribution of Kuiper Belt Objects (KBOs). It is in this distribution that a feature has been observed. At approximately 50 AU there is a sudden drop in KBO population. This has become known as the Kuiper Cliff and it possibly reveals that there is some significantly-sized planetary body (bigger than Pluto, but smaller than Earth) orbiting at a distance of 100 AU from the Sun. We have yet to discover anything that big shepherding the Kuiper Belt, but the Cliff is real, beyond 55 AU.

Other researchers have indicated that there may be a small planet orbiting at 60 AU (possibly explaining the behaviour of trans-Neptunian Objects, TNOs), or a massive planet (50% larger than Jupiter) patrolling a region of space over 1000 AU distant. However, there is still no strong evidence to support these theories, and there are certainly no observations of these possibilities.

The Sun’s Evil Twin?

Artist depiction of a dark star, or a brown dwarf (NASA)

Artist depiction of a dark star, or a brown dwarf (NASA)

So, we have some possible indirect observations of a Planet X out there, but what about the hypothetical Nemesis, the much feared “evil sun” that stalks our Solar System from afar?

In fact, it seems surprising that not more attention has been paid to Nemesis by conspiracy theorists and doomsayers. Planet X (a.k.a. Nibiru from the misunderstood Sumerian text), in comparison, seems like a petty concern when we are talking about a “second sun” that could be responsible for extinguishing life on Earth with alarming frequency. Although there is no direct evidence for the existence of Nemesis, some scientists have investigated this possibility. For a start, most stars observed in the galaxy are not single stars, they have a binary partner (often more). The Sun, as far as we know, is alone, there has never been any observation that our star has a binary partner. However, there are some indications that might point to the possibility of a faint, lightweight stellar companion that has remained secret till now. Key to this argument is the statistical regularity of mass extinctions on Earth, and its relationship with Oort Cloud objects.

Every 25 million years or so (over the last 250 million years), there appears to be some kind of extinction event on Earth. Could it be that a stellar partner, called Nemesis, passes closer to the Sun during its orbit, disturbing objects in the Oort cloud? If this is the case, there may be a mechanism for the regularity of comet impacts on Earth, thus causing the statistical regularity of extinctions. Once again, this is a hypothetical argument, but it is based on good science and historical evidence. If these extinction events are related to comet impacts after the comets have been kicked out of the Oort cloud by a binary brown dwarf or red dwarf, this suggests a binary orbital period of approximately 25 million years.

Where Are They?

Could Nemesis be a red dwarf? Probably not, according to precession data of the inner Solar System planets (NASA)

Could Nemesis be a red dwarf? Probably not, according to precession data of the inner Solar System planets (NASA)

For argument’s sake, let’s say Planet X and Nemesis could be out there. If so, how far away from the Sun could they orbit? Lorenzo Iorio from the National Institute of Nuclear Physics in Pisa, Italy, has investigated this question, using data derived from the dynamics of inner Solar System planets. In particular, Iorio has computed the Newtonian/Einsteinian perihelion precession of planets within 1.5 AU of the Sun that could be caused by a massive, unknown, distant body. From his computations, it is assumed that no matter where the inner planets are located in their orbits, the gravitational force felt by the planets will be constant. Therefore, if there is a massive body out there (either Planet X or Nemesis), what is the minimum possible orbital distance allowed by the computed precession of the inner Solar System planets?

Iorio concludes that the minimum possible distances at which a Mars-mass, Earth-mass, Jupiter-mass and Sun-mass object can orbit around the Sun are 62 AU, 430 AU, 886 AU and 8995 AU respectively. To put these distances in perspective, the minimum possible distance a Mars-mass Planet X could orbit is over two times further away from the Sun than Pluto’s 39 AU (average) distance from the Sun.

If we consider the minimum possible orbit for a brown dwarf-mass object (often cited as a possible “failed star” candidate for Nemesis), with a mass of 75-80 Jupiters, its minimum orbital distance would be approximately 0.06 light years away (or 3,736-3,817 AU). A red dwarf (0.075-0.5 solar masses) would have a minimum orbital distance of 0.06-0.11 light years away (3,793-7,139 AU).

In Conclusion

Iorio has basically set the constraints on the closest possible orbital radii for unknown planets and small stellar objects as yet to be discovered in our Solar System. If they were any closer, their gravitational presence would be felt, and we’d easily be able to detect perturbations in the dynamics of the inner planets.

If Nemesis (the Sun’s binary partner) is out there, it isn’t any closer than ~3,800 AU (if it’s a large brown dwarf, or a small red dwarf). Therefore, it seems unlikely that Nemesis will have a very stable orbit as it would be affected by the gravity of other stars in different systems. From this evidence alone, Nemesis will remain a myth. In light of the updated paper, the minimum distance for a Nemesis candidate has reduced, and could therefore have a stable binary orbit with the Sun. However, something this large will have been observed by now.

According to a paper by David Jewitt, at the Institute for Astronomy, University of Hawaii, a Jupiter-sized planet could be detected up to a distance of 2140 AU (the minimum distance that a Jupiter-mass planet could exist is ~886 AU according to Iorio). To put this into perspective, a Pluto-sized planetary body can be detected up to a distance of 320 AU according to Jewitt, so it would appear there is nothing of significant mass out there up to 320 AU away (if you can call Pluto’s mass “significant” that is!).

(A special thank you to Ricardo De Castro for providing this additional information.)

Therefore, there is little chance that Planet X does exist, Iorio’s data suggests that the minimum distance a Mars-mass object can orbit is 62 AU (twice the distance of Pluto’s orbit), but Jewitt’s data suggests that if something the size of Mars was orbiting the Sun at a distance of 62 AU, it would have been discovered by now. According to Jewitt, a Pluto-sized object is detectable up to a distance of 320 AU. Mars is far bigger than Pluto, meaning anything the size of Mars would have made its presence very obvious by now. A tiny Planet X within 320 AU is very hard to imagine, and anything bigger could be seen coming from a vast distance (a couple of thousand AU). If Planet X is improbable, the larger Nemesis seems even more so.

To cut a long story short, it looks like we have discovered all the large planets (of Mars mass and above) and anything else probably will have very little influence on inner Solar System dynamics for millennia for millions of years to come.

Sources:
Constraints on Planet X and Nemesis from Solar System’s inner dynamics“, Lorenzo Iorio, 2009. arXiv:0904.1562v1 [gr-qc]
Project Pan-STARRS and the Outer Solar System“, David Jewitt, 2004.


bookmark bookmark bookmark bookmark bookmark bookmark bookmark bookmark bookmark bookmark bookmark bookmark
tabs-top
  • Great post and a nice layman's guide to Nemisis and Planet X - I've read hundreds of pages on Nemisis and this is the first one which is readable!

    Shame though, I was very excited at the possibility of a steller companion and a nearby star to investigate. I'm not entirely sure though that we can rule out the possibility of having not noticed a companion as I understand there are hundreds of nearby red dwarfs whose paths have not been thoroughly examined and distances are hard to judge (as I understand it they are mostly guessed based on brightness once a stars type has been determined).

    Interesting new news though about the arrival Gliese 710 in 1.5 million years (due to carve through the Oort cloud!). See http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/24917/ for more details.

    Also, apparently there have been a dozen previous close encounters, and of course the Centari red dwarf is very close too. I wonder if some of these could have triggered comets.
  • niftynev
    Yeah gidday all, its nev ere. Very interesting and varied comments; I think we should all keep an open mind on this stuff. I became even more interested when I used google sky to look in the direction of orion a few weeks ago using instructions on the net. There were 'corner border marks' in that area indicating that the image was unavailable, at a certain magnification, but at magnifications either side of this there was an image available. It seemed to me suspicious - google saying there was no image but an image was there. Were they trying to hide something or was it just an innocent glitch in the system? Also, if Nibiru has an orbit of ~3700 years, is there any archaelogical or any other historical record showing drastic earthly changes that occur cyclically? Surely some archaeologist somewhere would have seen evidence in sedimentary strata to indicate this, like darker layers when there is a large volcanic eruption? As they say - " I want to believe ", but at the moment its all just fascinating food for thought!
  • thepriory
    this is interesting but not correct! 1st thing, go to 1983 when scientist n astronomers found what they said was a "Heavenly Body" in our solar system! then they cover it up n say they were wrong! 2nd. the ancient sumerians describe, neptune, uranius, n pluto, before anyone in the scientific community even noticed them! 3rd. astronomers say that 90% of all solar systems are binary, n every single star system, doesnt have the means to support life! 4th. if you are religious, or believe everything the government tells you, then your probably already lost in the lie's that have been told to us from our so called founding fathers! 5th. how come every culture, religion, n society talk about 2012 being important?

    Heres my thought... If you dont know your history, you dont know you future, or even your present! since the religions, schools, n governments been lying to us this hole time, how can you know what the truth is, if you dont find out for yourself! so if your reading this, n you think its the answer, your totally mistaking! just like the governments telling us theres no UFO's, but yet they have video evidence of them, they will tell you the ancient cultures didnt know anything! heres something to think about... in the early 90's America went to Iraq, n in 3 weeks the war was over! well we went back there 2002, n r still there today! 7 years later! why did the first time take less than a month, n this time its taking over 7 years? well if you know your history, the ancient Sumerians lived in Sumer!(Iraq) all of there history pre-dates every religion on the planet, by 4000 or so years! so I ask again, why is the American government still there! Ill tell you... they know about the ancient civilizations, n found ancient technology that surpasses our technology now!

    Now the Sumerians are the oldest civilization that we can take artifacts from, and date them back! But, if you listen to the Native Americans, they say the came to America 300,000 years ago! they also say they came from the mountains of Tibet! hmm, Buddhist's!
    who woulda thought the Buddhist's discovered America, before any of the Europeans! But yet, the history books, n government dont tell you these things! The only conspiracy is the Governments! They lie, hide, n try to destroy the truth, so they can rule all of our minds!

    Im not saying im right, or your wrong, or anything like that! im saying, we have the choice, its called Free Will! search n decide for yourself! there is more to life, the world, n the universe that the governments dont want you to know! theres too much info, for people to be so blind! Wake Up your Consciousness! Search your Feelings! the best thing to do is figure it out for yourself, n to Love Life! Love is the key to immortality! without Love, we are just Lifeless Zombies!
  • I never thought it was possible to feel motion sickness after reading a comment... but yes, it really is possible.
  • What's with all those n's? A natural number fetish of some sort, maybe?
  • M
    It doesn't seem to make much sense that you say Planet X is simply a "theory" when there has already been a mountain of evidence proving this planet's existence and which way its heading.

    Ever since 1982 when NASA release their first discovery of planet x and then in 1984 again, where they estimated that the planet was a mere 55 billion miles away. Ten years later, in the 1990s, they released another National Landmark press after learning more about Planet X or "Nibiru", stating that it was only 7 billion miles away.

    I'm not trying to argue or cause an arguement here. It just seems like you didn't do enough research when you're calling Planet X a "hoax". It is real and it is coming...
  • Walt
    If it does exist, it can be hidden by many factors science does not discuss. Objects around it, clouds of dense gas along with cosmic dust and of all things, brighter more dominate objects.

    However, if you are right then you must explain global warming and activities revolving around volcanic eruptions etc. Do not put forth Co2. Moot scientifically. It is an inconvenient truth.
  • Hi Mike Lorrey

    While I find discovering a nearby red-dwarf or heavy brown-dwarf to be an exciting prospect I don't think it's needed to explain any extinction periodicity. The proposed period of the extinctions is suspiciously close to the time it takes the Sun to complete a rise-and-fall above and below the Galactic plane. Thus some sort of Galactic process - like enhanced cosmic rays - is a more probable cause of the extinctions.
  • yourmomsnutz
    here is all my pan staRRs and LSST info:
    http://www.mininova.org/tor/2342550
  • Mike Lorrey
    The problem with your conclusions is that they are very premature. There are according to Dr. Richard Muller, over 5,000 red dwarfs in the star catalog whose parallax distance has not been measured yet. Nemesis would have a very low proper motion given its highly elliptical orbit and its last pass being 5 million years ago. It would be 1-1.5 ly away (this orbit is considered to be stable for at least another billion years, according to Muller). Well known close red dwarfs like Barnard's Star and Gliese 581 are well known because they were first detected from their high proper motion across the sky. Outside of proper motion, most red dwarfs have little reason to observe them.

    Now, your conclusion that just because Nemesis COULD be detected, you assume that it would have been detected by now is therefore false. However, sky surveys currently underway like PANSTARRS and WISE may resolve the issue in the next few years.

    Most astronomers in looking for planetary objects in our solar system tend to restrict their observations to close to the plane of the ecliptic. The detection of minor planet Sedna, in its highly eliptical orbit at high inclination, was a fluke because the discoverer intentionally went looking for high inclination objects. That said, Sedna is in an orbit that is considered resonant with the theorized orbit of Nemesis and it, along with the orbits of a number of long period comets, are considered observational evidence for the influence of Nemesis.
  • Thanks to the "Encyclopedia Galactica" (alias Wikipedia) I've managed to discover the interesting news that Pan-STARRS camera 1, imaginatively named PS1, went online December 6, 2008. So they've barely begun. Doubtless the data-processing to pin-point objects will be quite a daunting challenge - every snap-session by that uber-Gigapixel camera will be huge.

    Would be cool if they processed it by farming it out to users to do on their PCs, but I think individual files alone would crash most home computers.

    Big things might be found in the Outer Solar System by the end of the year... cool!
  • I think it's a bit premature to say Pan-STARRS has ruled anything out as yet, since there's yet to be a major data release by the Pan-STARRS operators. Not wishing to feed the conspiracy nutters, but perhaps the Hawaiians have found something and want to study it some more before they spring it on the world? I don't mean "Nibiru" or the Sun's putative binary companion, but something Mars-Earth sized - which would be very cool.
  • yourmomsnutz
    Thanks Ian O'Neill!!! Great article & pics!!

    i have been doing research on Planet X for 12
    years now. I feel one can only truly under stand anything after cross referencing large amounts of DATA.
    Here is all my DATA. over 7000 pictures
    450 documentary's ON planet X Nemesis.

    These are for Planet X, Pression & Pole/Magnetic Reversal research ONLY!

    NOT!! Religious debate!! Your faith is your OWN BUSINESS!!

    We are here for Research ONLY!!

    If you have an open mind, you will GO far!!!

    http://www.mininova.org/search/?search=YouRmomSnutZ&cat=0


    We WANT to:
    Gather and cross-check vast amounts of knowledge in many dozen specialized fields from scientists and researchers around the globe in addition to studying hundreds of historical documents spanning back to the dawn of history. These fields include archeology, geology, astro, geo & quantum physics, ancient languages & civilizations, paleontology, ancient history, genetics and others.

    Events shape our lives, even distant and dark ones. From the time I was a wee little one, I have stopped my fear of dark places. I pick up my torch and journey alone through darkened corridors leading down into bottomless caverns of events past. I stumble upon the remnants of an intricate puzzle, which I bring back with me, and in the quiet of my dreams, are assembled before me.

    hope these help someone doing research on this OH SO IMPORTANT EVENT!!
  • Torbjörn Larsson, OM

    I agree that is a horrible term - in this case technically the Earth isn’t a planet! I hate the ambiguity


    Couldn't one use the lawyer approach, and look for the definitions in the texts that were used to found the new rules? IIRC a paper that described the observations (haven't time to find it know) had a very natural and quantitative gap (seem to remember 3 orders or so of magnitude) between the Mars-Mercury orbital clearing vs Pluto-Ceres and lesser bodies et cetera. No ambiguity there.

    [But also, I seem to remember that if "clearing" is defined as constituting the major remainder mass, and why shouldn't it be, there is again no problem with ambiguity.]
  • Torbjörn Larsson, OM
    Now I'm confused.

    Assuming we want observations of extinction rates to be a basis for a physics hypothesis, wouldn't we want to have the usual significance for new observations, say P < 0.0001 or so? Yet the Raup & Sepkoski paper that Iorio references are satisfied with P < 0.01.

    That may be good enough for biology as regards historical observations, but it doesn't seem to measure up to physics criteria in astronomy.


    there may be a mechanism for the regularity of comet impacts on Earth, thus causing the statistical regularity of extinctions. Once again, this is a hypothetical argument, but it is based on good science and historical evidence.


    Is it really good science? I can find papers that speak of a long debate and includes current data [Alroy 2008]:


    The hypothesis that mass extinctions show an asymp; 26-Myr cycle of periodicity (6) has arguably been the most debated hypothesis by paleontologists over the last quarter century. A host of potential mechanisms for periodicity have been offered, such as impacts driven by astrophysical factors (6) or the lag time needed either to accumulate species vulnerable to mass extinction (48) or to build networks of ecological interactions that can collapse if even slightly perturbed (29).
    Qualitatively, it is hard to discern some of the extinction rate peaks that should fall in the periodic pattern (13). Quantitatively, extinction rates in the Fossil Record 2 family data (3) and Sepkoski’s family and genus data (1, 2) are not correlated with themselves at any time lag (49), which is a necessary condition for periodicity to hold. That said, analyses of origination rates in all three datasets (49, 50) suggest short-term autocorrelation. However, the current dataset shows no autocorrelation in either kind of rate (Fig. S1), and a standard spectral analysis (Fig. S2) also suggests purely random variation through the time series (i.e., white noise). [My bold.]


    Alroy suggests that the variation over a modern dataset is consistent with white noise. The low significance in the original paper combined with low fossil data coverage can perhaps explain the discrepancy between correlations found in older data and this modern result. (It could also be a problem that the fossils are AFAIU used to define stratigraphic staging, and the stratigraphic staging is used to analyze the fossil data against.)

    [I don't want to be too flippant, but I quickly scanned Raup & Sepkoski paper, and found two large problems IMHO. First, after they use a Fourier transform to detect any variations in extinction rates, they use a subjective filter to model data with, "extinction peaks". These are "a peak being any point flanked by lower points".

    A model Fourier spectra with a peak around twice the average stratigraphic stages suggested by such a data model, or 12 My, is coincident with the peak they use (and as a method runs up against aliasing problems). Without any further analysis to discern if that is all there is in their signal model they should exclude this peak as suggesting "extinction peaks" (instead of any periodicity consistent with the data).

    Second, I believe they should have seen this if they had used a no signal reference to check their analysis against - but they did not.

    I don't suggest that these methodical problems is why the signal disappeared with modern data sets, the initial low significance combined with low fossil data coverage and staging issues suggested above could be enough, but it wouldn't have helped.]
  • Brian
    Could the object be a condensed object? primordial black hole or ancient neutron star/white dwarf? Something that is not very luminous, but massive?
  • Swanni
    I hear everyone talking about planets entering our solar system and I've read quite a bit about Nibiru and 2012, but what if our solar system revolves around an enormous "star" along with other systems much like how our planets revolve around our sun? Could it be more likely that our whole system will someday cross path with a planet that is in another system as our orbits get closer?

    I haven't researched this at all, if anyone knows of links referring to this I would like to look at them.
  • Tenshu
    Hey Ian, remember me from universe today, i think you might want to go back over and check this article that you posted their because two people recently posted links to spanish sites that talk about planet x and it is disturbing, also one of them said "poor ian" too.
  • @Mang - Oh great - thanks for letting my know. I'm currently updating the website in preparation for the redesign and it looks like some of the new plugins are blocking the old ones... I'll see if I can work out the problem.

    Sorry about that, this is going to be frustrating to piece together the conversation again!

    Cheers, Ian
  • Mang
    Ian - the reply boxes within boxes appears to have broken.
  • Nemesis star (brown dwarf) with a period of 3,600 years is unrealistic:

    Júpiter mass ≈ 1,9 E+27 kg
    Sun mass ≈ 2,0 E+30 kg
    Brown Dwarf mass: 80 Mj ≈ 1,5 E+29 kg
    M+m ≈ 2,15 E+30 kg
    G ≈ 6,67 E-11 m³/kg.s² [ gravitational constant ]
    P = 3,600 years ≈ 1,136 E+11 seconds
    (P/2∏)² = a³/G(M+m) [ Kepler law ]
    a³ ≈ 4,59 E+30 m³
    a ≈ 3,6 E+13 m ≈ 240 AU (major axis)
    And that is far below Iorio restriction (3,800 AU) !

    ROCA
  • Astrogeek,

    Correct,

    Iorio restrictions are for the minimum distance from the object to the Sun (perihelion).

    Nemesis, if exists, could not get near the ~3,800 AU limit from the Sun.

    Therefore, as a brown dwarf, it would have a visual magnitude above +24, so it would be invisible to (optically) to be detected by the Pan-STARRS campaign.

    ROCA
  • PS. and no, I've never been asked that question :) I'm thinking there's a certain Dr Who twist to that... Um, I'd probably have to go with losing my towel. I've already done that, so I'll know what to expect. Daleks are a little quick at exterminating people, so losing one's dignity seems better somehow ;)
  • Hi there Rick!

    Thank you for your kind words, I really appreciate it :)

    Yes, I have actually heard that 2012 is just one possible year when the calendar ends. On Dec. 20th, 2012, the Mayan calendar looks like this: 12.19.19.17.19. The next day, on the 21st, the calendar either resets to 0.0.0.0.0 or it continues to the next "b'ak'tun": 13.0.0.0.0. If it's the latter, technically the calendar hasn't ended (and it will keep going until 20.0.0.0.0 (as you say, for another couple of millennia!). However, even descendants of the ancient Maya don't know whether it resets or not, and even if it did, it has no bearing on reality. It's all just very strange how so much has been hinged on an ancient calendar.

    And don't get me started on Sitchin! I think I'll save him for another day ;)

    Cheers! Ian
  • These revised numbers seem interesting in relations to Kuiper Cliff. If a Mars sized object could be as close as 62 AU, with the Cliff being around 55 AU, that seems to me to open the door for a possible something smaller than Mars but bigger than Eris (Mercury sized-ish?) lurking around the Cliff waiting to be found.
  • I had the same strange feeling when comparing these numbers because I was trying to match these results with Pan-STARRS previous study (2004) from DAVID JEWITT .

    See my comment above that is awaiting moderation.

    In the Pan-STARRS paper, table III, page 10, shows gravity impact on Solar System due to a hypothetical massive body using calculus from Hogg, D., Quinlan, G., and Tremaine, S.: 1991, A. J. 101, 2274.

    Maybe you could it as a reference in this article too...

    Regards,
    ROCA
  • Hi Ian;

    Wanted to share the link love: http://is.gd/srqK links here and soon http://astrogeek.wordpress.com/hoax/ will as well.

    Iorio does a good job constraining the minimum distance, but I have a question. As you know the Planet-X/Nibiru/2012 hoax supposes a 3600 year highly elliptical orbit. I've read elsewhere that this orbit would be impossible, but would Iorio's constraints on the minimum distance be for the average of the orbit, or for the perihelion?
  • Oh wow, thank you for bringing my attention to this!

    I thought I was going crazy for a minute, I just checked the paper to find all the numbers were completely different to what I had researched, but I now see what happened: They've updated the paper on the arXiv server. Take a look here: http://arxiv.org/abs/0904.1562 at the comments. A version 2 was uploaded only today.


    Rewritten version amending the previous one which contained a serious error. Results changed. I thank D. Ragozzine and C. Heinke for their criticisms


    That's annoying! However, that's sometimes the case when using information from papers that have just appeared on the arXiv. I now need to correct all the numbers, I'm one order of magnitude out! I think I might need to write another post about this issue - it means the possibility of Planet X is actually a lot, lot closer than we originally thought!

    Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

    Cheers, Ian
  • Rick
    Dr. O'Neill, I am not a scientist, and much of what you write about goes right over my head...but I enjoy reading about it just the same. I really enjoy your site, and I feel a twinge of satisfaction when you debunk pseudoscience, especially fantasy stories written by the likes of Zacharia Sitchin and the Mayan doomsday "prophecies". Regarding the latter, I remember reading an excerpt somewhere written by a philosopher named Ken Wilber, wherein he stated that if the the Mayan calendar is read correctly, it actually ends/starts over/turns to cheese sometime after the year 4700, which might be a bit of a let-down for all of the people waiting for fireworks in 2012. Have you heard anything about that?

    Anyway, keep up the good work. Thanks for the information and the subtle British wit. A shortcut to your site is now on my "Favorites" bar, right in between spaceweather.com and NOAA.gov. (I actually discovered your site from a link on spaceweather.com).

    P.S. - I know you've probably been asked this many times before, but which is worse, running into a group of Daleks or losing your towel?
  • Mang
    Sorry I'm a bit confused. How could it still be forming if the dwarf is older?
  • Ian,
    I read Iorio's article and I guess there is a mismatch here:

    You say:
    "Iorio concludes that the minimum possible distances at which a Mars-mass, Earth-mass, Jupiter-mass and Sun-mass object can orbit around the Sun are 250 AU, 750 AU, 13,500 AU and 500,000 AU respectively."

    "If we consider the minimum possible orbit for a brown dwarf-mass object (often cited as a possible “failed star” candidate for Nemesis), with a mass of 75-80 Jupiters, its minimum orbital distance would be a little under 2 light-years away (or 125,000 AU). A red dwarf (0.075-0.5 solar masses) would have a minimum orbital distance of 2.1-5.6 light years away (132,000-354,000 AU). To put these numbers into perspective, the Oort Cloud is thought to be roughly 50,000 AU (~1 light year) away and the nearest star to our Sun, Proxima Centauri, is 4.2 light years away."

    Iorio says:
    "As a result, the data from Mars yield the tightest dynamical constraints on the minimum distances at which putative bodies with the mass of Mars, Earth, Jupiter and the Sun can be located; they are 62 AU, 130 AU, 886 AU, 8, 995 AU, respectively."

    "A brown dwarf with m ≈ 75 − 80 mJup cannot orbit at a distance smaller than 3,736− 3,817 AU from the Sun, while the minimum distance for a red dwarf (0.075 M⊙ ≤ m ≤ 0.5 M⊙) ranges from 3,793 AU to 7,139 AU. Such dynamical, model-independent constraints are tighter than those obtainable from the upper bound on the solar system barycenter’s acceleration recently derived from pulsar timing data."

    Could You check this?

    Regards,
    ROCA
  • sobe
    ...obvious coverup by the Obama administration.
  • Hi Ian,

    Pan-STARRS will detect any object with visual magnitude over +24 in a few years, according to Pan-STARRS project document:
    PROJECT PAN-STARRS AND THE OUTER SOLAR SYSTEM by DAVID JEWITT
    http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~jewitt/papers/2004/J2004.pdf
    by DAVID JEWITT

    So, I made a comparison between Lorenzo Iorio figures against table III, page 10 numbers:

    An Earth sized planet would have visual magnitude +24 at 620 AU;

    A Jupiter sized planet would be detectable at 2140 AU;

    A Neptune classe planet would be seen at 1230 AU;

    A Pluto object could be detect up to 320 AU.

    Considering all these figures will can conclude that Pan-STARRS will detect only Pluto sized new dwarf-planets and nothing heavier than it. No planet-X !

    ROCA

    http://eternosaprendizes.wordpress.com/2009/03/11/a-procura-pelo-planeta-x-vai-ganhar-um-reforco-extra-do-observatorio-pan-starrs/
  • Yes, but if bipolar system is still in forming stage, outer regions of both stars systems could be closer and still interact with each other in regular basis.
  • Mang
    @Milan - I'm not sure this is really a third choice. You still have to deal with the mass of the dwarf plus its planets and now the additional space requirements as well. I think you'd end up pushing it further away and it's already tenuous at 2+ light years. What does adding the scenario of planets explain?

    As for similar systems, I'm not sure we've had any luck finding exoplanets around brown dwarves.
  • Mang
    Still coffee deprived, but if there just isn't anything out there to clear I wonder how the clear your neighbourhood criteria works? It seems a bit like comparing housekeeping skill when one person lives in an idylic climate and the other a dust bowl.
  • Third possibility:

    What if Nemesis really exists according to Iorio research with highly inclined orbit (like Pluto) and has multiple planets of it's own?

    It is not a bad hypothesis that if this star is older than Sun that it also has it's own system with both inner and outer rings with rocky and gas planets that also can affect Kuiper Belt and Oort cloud in some regular way.

    Is there some other systems like this in our Galaxy?
  • Hi David!

    It's funny, I was thinking the same thing when I was doing some research into the Kuiper Cliff last year. I think the key thing to remember that the Cliff doesn't represent a complete lack of KBOs, there's just less of them. Also, it isn't necessarily the case that there needs to be an object clearing the neighbourhood (I agree that is a horrible term - in this case technically the Earth isn't a planet! I hate the ambiguity) just beyond the Kuiper belt, astronomers think that the Cliff may be some kind of resonance with an undiscovered massive object further out.

    One thing with the paper though, it wasn't overly interested in what is out there, it was more about the mathematics and dynamics of inner planets (to be honest, most of the methods used went over my head). But I think the conclusions are pretty nice :) Looks like the lower constraint has been found meaning we've pretty much found everything large within 250 AU. But then again, there's nothing more mysterious than the cosmos, who knows what research will surface proving otherwise.

    Cheers!

    Ian
  • Jim
    Wouldn't it be possible to compute the angle of the missing mass based on it's effects on the planets?

    I mean, the exact position can't be calculated without knowing it's mass, but if we know the effects, isn't it just a matter of picking the orbital radius? (if we were to sit in the position of the sun and see it looking in a specific direction.) At the very least, couldn't be at least generate an idea of which part of the sky to look for it?

    Also, knowing the effects, it might suggest the orbital speed, which could narrow down both mass and distance.
  • Mang
    Hmmm ... I was thinking about the Cliff and the IAU definition of a planet. The whole (badly phrased) clearing the neighbourhood criteria. The neat thing is you don't have to buy the definition here because we're not concerned with what to call it just how it behaves.

    One of the (less nit picky) problems with that definition that has been pointed out is the effect of distance. Consider twins to one or more of the inner solar syetm planets like Earth or Mars. If you place them far enough away from the Sun they don't have time to clear (or dominate) their neighbourhood.

    Okay so far, but doesn't the Cliff imply that something has cleared the neighbourhood.

    Now I may be one or two coffee's short right now, but unless I've missed something doesn't that thing have to be much larger than Mars and possibly larger than Earth.

    Come to think isn't there a paper on what might be out there. I wonder if the authors here looked at that one?
  • Hi Scott. Unfortunately, I have little control over GoogleAds on the site. At the moment, I'm seeing 3 ads about solar panels, 2 about an IQ test and one radio controlled plane.

    I have stopped a list of the more notorious 2012 sites from advertising on my site. I've only seen one or two religious 2012 links and a couple of books advertise via Astroengine.

    If you see any that cause offence, please send me the link of that advertiser and I'll investigate it.

    Many thanks, Ian
  • Great post. Too bad you've got Ads by Google at the top of the page with things like:

    "2012 - Planet X / Nibiru
    View Detailed Analysis of 2012 Flyby of Nibiru. Will You Survive? "

    and

    "Planet X / Nibiru Found
    in the Book of Revelation revealing when it's coming, where to be safe "

    It unfortunately provides links to sites with a message that is 180 degrees in the opposite direction. :(
blog comments powered by Disqus